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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:48 pm
Posts: 35
eeePC model: 1000HE
Aurora version: Other
Forgive me if this is not the right place to post this.....
I worked on getting my system to a reasonable size and decrease the amount of unused packages as much as possible. I "started" with eeebuntu 3.0 standard and now have eeebuntu 3.0 LXDE (upgraded to LXDE through synaptic)

Basically I uninstalled OpenOffice, pidgin, and other packages I did not use or liked.
Eeebuntu + packages are using 1.7gb, 987 packages installed, and battery life is approximately 8 hours (wifi enabled, webcam disabled) with LXDE. Hulu and youtube videos are smooth and the amount of third party non-free packages are decreased.

Leaps and bounds:
Gnumeric - for those spreadsheets from work. :-(
Abiword - decent text editor / PDF creator.
ePDF viewer - not sure why I need this with Abiword installed?
Xfburn - lightweight graphical CD burner
MOC - lightweight ncurse, but simple music player (Installed plugin to play wma files.
Avidemux - the ability to edit my movie clips
Gnome-power-manager - power management
gThumb - lightweight image editor / manipulator ('easily' manipulate image sizes),
Gnome-system-config-printer - the ability to easily configure my wireless Hp network printer
Parcellite - lightweight clipboard
Ubuntu Tweak - enough said!
xCHM - every now and then I run into a site that only has Windoz help files (Yuk!)
Kazehakase - lighter and faster than FireFox (though not as user configurable)
rxvt-unicode - lightweight terminal emulator with true transparency ability (~/.Xdefaults)
SMPlayer - with MPlayer-nogui - plays all my media files (.flv, .wmv, .avi, .mpg, etc.)
gparted - cannot beat this gui partition editor!
wicd - best network manager I can find that WORKS!
Transmission - BitTorrent Client - try to live without this!?!?
EEEPC ACPI (fewt's tool) - need I say more
alsamixer - otherwise sound would be turned all the way down. :(
unetbootin - for placing live-images on bootable pen-drives.
and more.......

Short falls:
1. Upon boot sound is muted - uninstalled pulse audio, any help would be appreciated
2. Touchpad does not disable while typing - despite reading the faq/troublesooting from straux
3. Editing .desktop files is a must, there is not a gui that will put some of the proper icons where they belong
3. Where can I download the eeebuntu wallpaper files without installing them through synaptic - Lxde Wallpaper.... Boring!
4. Leafpad editor does not have all the features as gedit - gedit recognized programing lines and highlighted them after you saved the file... for x, do x, exit ... In leafpad these lines are standard text lines.
5. Default Battery meter works great and adjust correctly - Gnome's w/PM battery meter is usually incorrect. - However Powertop is a great tool: 'sudo powertop'


These are all minor, but livable.
Installed Packages + sizes:
linux-headers-2.6.29-1 0067440640
linux-source-2.6.28 0057241600
linux-image-2.6.29-1-netbook 0052981760
libgl1-mesa-dri 0036851712
eb3-icons 0036705280
smbclient 0025337856
gnumeric-common 0021729280
gnome-icon-theme 0021712896
ttf-arphic-uming 0021671936
xulrunner-1.9 0020885504
libgtk2.0-common 0020037632
foomatic-db 0015773696
perl-modules 0014868480
perl 0013959168
libc6-dev 0013746176
samba-common 0011685888
thunar-data 0011644928
gnome-power-manager 0011546624
coreutils 0011350016
cups 0011264000
libc6 0011165696
libqtgui4 0010907648
metacity-common 0010711040
human-icon-theme 0010596352
libavcodec52 0010166272
libstdc++6-4.3-dev 0009940992
aptitude 0009908224
lxde-common 0009814016
python2.6 0009543680
mplayer-nogui 0009236480
g++-4.3 0009134080
locales 0009007104
abiword-common 0008835072
binutils 0008675328
iso-codes 0008593408
linux-firmware 0008523776
xfonts-base 0008511488
gcalctool 0008441856
avidemux 0008425472
abiword 0007995392
libwxgtk2.6-0 0007798784
cpp-4.3 0007692288
gthumb-data 0007655424
gnome-system-monitor 0007495680
dpkg 0007454720
libqt4-designer 0007274496
linux-headers-2.6.29-1-netbook 0007098368
gnumeric-doc 0007069696
libgs8 0006938624
libssl0.9.8 0006848512
gnumeric 0006590464
gconf2-common 0006549504
tzdata 0006459392
mc 0006422528
gdb 0006352896
openbox-themes 0006279168
synaptic 0006225920
libruby1.8 0006090752
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ttf-dejavu-extra 0005898240
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libgutenprint2 0005685248
libqtcore4 0005586944
openprinting-ppds 0005574656
cups-common 0005480448
libgtk2.0-0 0005386240
apt 0005357568
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zenity 0004960256
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perl-base 0004452352
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xserver-xorg-core 0004386816
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libsmbclient 0004321280
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smplayer-themes 0004243456
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gucharmap 0004198400
linux-libc-dev 0004173824
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ghostscript 0003551232
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postfix 0003006464
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man-db 0002744320
transmission-gtk 0002719744
python-apt 0002699264
libmono0 0002691072
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groff-base 0002592768
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splix 0002048000
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python-xapian 0001941504
mono-utils 0001921024
w3m 0001912832
wicd 0001904640
kazehakase 0001900544
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iptables 0001712128
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gthumb 0001699840
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python-rdflib 0001679360
libxml2 0001675264
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xarchiver 0001667072
libdjvulibre21 0001654784
libbonoboui2-common 0001650688
lftp 0001585152
libgnomeprint2.2-data 0001572864
python-libxml2 0001572864
abiword-help 0001568768
findutils 0001564672
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make 0001236992
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manpages 0001040384
vcdimager 0001036288
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gettext-base 0000995328
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iproute 0000987136
udev 0000987136
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sed 0000954368
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gnome-mount 0000942080
libcaca0 0000917504
adduser 0000909312
pnm2ppa 0000905216
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net-tools 0000872448
xchat 0000860160
libcairo2 0000856064
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wpasupplicant 0000835584
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cpio 0000700416
python-dbus 0000700416
metacity 0000696320
ntfsprogs 0000688128
leafpad 0000684032
dhcp3-client 0000679936
libgnomeui-0 0000679936
libxfce4util4 0000679936
mdadm 0000679936
moc 0000679936
rsync 0000679936
libsvga1 0000675840
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obconf 0000671744
unetbootin-translations 0000667648
lshw 0000663552
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xserver-xorg 0000663552
bsdmainutils 0000655360
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cupsddk 0000647168
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python 0000638976
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libept0 0000536576
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arj 0000524288
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system-config-printer-common 0000520192
cupsddk-drivers 0000516096
liborbit2 0000516096
libgcrypt11 0000507904
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libdate-manip-perl 0000503808
psmisc 0000503808
xfconf 0000503808
libilmbase6 0000499712
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hal-info 0000487424
xdg-user-dirs-gtk 0000487424
deborphan 0000483328
mtools 0000483328
libgl1-mesa-glx 0000479232
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apt-utils 0000475136
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libpcre3 0000475136
libsndfile1 0000475136
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alsa-base 0000442368
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sudo 0000438272
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libsasl2-modules 0000417792
policykit 0000417792
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memtest86+ 0000397312
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onboard 0000352256
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acl 0000274432
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python-xdg 0000225280
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at 0000221184
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dc 0000212992
desktop-file-utils 0000212992
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patch 0000212992
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apt-xapian-index 0000200704
bc 0000200704
libjpeg62 0000200704
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bsdutils 0000192512
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python-problem-report 0000192512
python-xkit 0000192512
avahi-utils 0000188416
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cups-bsd 0000184320
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libts-0.0-0 0000184320
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abiword-plugin-grammar 0000098304
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linux-restricted-modules-common 0000090112
bluez-cups 0000086016
hostname 0000086016
libpciaccess0 0000086016
libtagc0 0000086016
libtie-ixhash-perl 0000086016
libxcursor1 0000086016
lsb-base 0000086016
buffer 0000081920
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libfreezethaw-perl 0000081920
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libuuid-perl 0000081920
libxtrap6 0000081920
moc-ffmpeg-plugin 0000081920
mscompress 0000081920
finger 0000077824
libacl1 0000077824
libhtml-tagset-perl 0000077824
libxdmcp6 0000077824
libxv1 0000077824
lockfile-progs 0000077824
system-services 0000077824
watershed 0000077824
xinput 0000077824
libcarp-clan-perl 0000073728
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libijs-0.35 0000073728
libio-string-perl 0000073728
libxcb-render-util0 0000073728
libxtst6 0000073728
libxxf86dga1 0000073728
libxxf86vm1 0000073728
lxde-settings-daemon 0000073728
iputils-arping 0000069632
libattr1 0000069632
libcap2 0000069632
libcpufreq0 0000069632
libnotify-bin 0000069632
libtext-wrapi18n-perl 0000069632
libxau6 0000069632
ttf-dejavu 0000069632
gcc 0000065536
inputattach 0000065536
libgomp1 0000065536
libxcb-atom1 0000065536
libxcb-aux0 0000065536
libxcb-event1 0000065536
libxcomposite1 0000065536
libxfixes3 0000065536
libxmuu1 0000065536
mktemp 0000065536
mono-2.0-runtime 0000065536
mono-runtime 0000065536
vbetool 0000065536
libkeyutils1 0000061440
libsdl1.2debian 0000061440
libx86-1 0000061440
libxdamage1 0000061440
libxinerama1 0000061440
libxres1 0000061440
libxxf86misc1 0000061440
laptop-detect 0000057344
ubuntu-keyring 0000057344
bluez-utils 0000049152
build-essential 0000049152
medibuntu-keyring 0000049152

I will post some pictures as soon as I find a program that is light enough and does not install too many dependency files. :)

If you anyone can think of a way I can trim some more fat, without losing some of the funtionality I have, let me know... ;)

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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:27 am 
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One more little annoyance I forgot....
My 32MB SDHC does not automount (or any usb device for that matter)
I installed:
usbautomount - no go :x
ivman + pmount - kind of worked, my sdhc holds my music and video files. every other boot 'the midnight media bunnies' :shock: would change my volume name an underscore at the end of the volume name; my programs that saved the location of my files would not find them (MY_DATA would become MY_DATA_); hence the paths would be incorrect and the files not found. :?:

Solution - launch pcmanfm and click on the drive before I launch smplayer (video) or moc (music) applications. Annoying! :roll:

Anyone have a solution?

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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:37 am 
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So, your lxde version is 1.7GB ??

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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:07 am 
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TRiPgod wrote:
So, your lxde version is 1.7GB ??


yes....

linux:~$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1 59G 1.7G 55G 3% /
tmpfs 1004M 0 1004M 0% /lib/init/rw
varrun 1004M 104K 1004M 1% /var/run
varlock 1004M 0 1004M 0% /var/lock
udev 1004M 136K 1004M 1% /dev
tmpfs 1004M 0 1004M 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs 1004M 816K 1003M 1% /var/log
tmpfs 1004M 8.0K 1004M 1% /tmp
tmpfs 1004M 0 1004M 0% /var/tmp
/dev/sdb1 31G 22G 8.6G 72% /media/MY_DATA
linux:~$

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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:44 am 
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I'm curious, why did you not just use Eeebuntu standard?

Steve.

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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:24 am 
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bluester wrote:
rxvt-unicode - lightweight terminal emulator with true transparency ability (~/.Xdefaults)

Yes, I use rxvt-unicode-lite. It is much smaller than lxterminal, in terms of memory used, and also handles characters correctly. My simple test of character handling is "man man" and then look at the section on "-7" which has a table of a few selected characters, so that you can check that they are displayed correctly.

But then I go and use up all of that saved memory by using xemacs as my editor :D

Geoff


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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:56 am 
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Steve wrote:
I'm curious, why did you not just use Eeebuntu standard?

Steve.


Well, I started with standard and realized a lot of the programs installed I did not use or need.
I probably should have started with base and worked my way up????

Anyway, the battery life with standard was poor with my 1000he - 5.5 hours tops, slow internet (even after the changes suggested in the wiki), and video play via youtube or hulu was less than adequate.
LXDE gave my system more life. Removing a few 'startup' applications helped as well.
AT-SPI
Upgrade monitor/manager
etc....

Openoffice took a while to load and Java is just toxic on netbooks, imho.
The challenge I am having is finding the right mix of programs and losing the ones I do not use.
The dependency challenge is proving to be very time consuming.

I am messing with my system tonight, removing various apps and getting down to a bare minimum.
However, it does not seem to want to go under 1.5gb
Abiword
Gnumeric
Gnome-mount
Gnome-system-monitor
gThumb
system-config-printer-gnome
gnome-themes
linux-source
build-essentials
Ubuntu-Tweak


all gone and I only gained about 250mb,
I have no idea how to reconfigure my printer if I hose my system right now - I did install the hp driver set which ate up 60mb of storage space... yuk.
Anyway, there is a script on the forum.eeeuser.com site I used at one time to back up my system.
I will take a look on that site for the script.
Edit: found it...
http://wiki.eeeuser.com/backup_restore
///exerpt///
Compressed Dump

This method is very similar to the large dump method, however we compress the image to make it smaller. This may even enable an 8G to store its image on a fat32 filesystem. First open a terminal window and become a “super user” with “sudo -i”.

dd if=/dev/sda | gzip -c9 > /PATH/TO/BACKUP.gz

Now when you want to restore it use.

gunzip -c /PATH/TO/BACKUP.gz | dd of=/dev/sda
///end///
Thanks for the inquiry!

Btw... I love what the Development team has done with eeebuntu!
The true issue for me, again, was the performance with video and sound.
I did upgrade the xorg drivers and implemented the fixmtr.sh script (found on Ubuntu Forum Site)
The noticeable changes came when I switched to LXDE. Kazehakase, SMPlayer and MOC! :D

The real question I have for you is this...
How in the heck are you getting the latest beta down to around 500mb?
I guess I will have to wait and see how you are building it, source I guess?
These bloody dependencies. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Ya, Steve's doing it from source. No gnome dependencies... well except for gdm, but that's extremely minimal.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:41 am 
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TRiPgod wrote:
Ya, Steve's doing it from source. No gnome dependencies... well except for gdm, but that's extremely minimal.


I have often wondered what it would be like to create an operating system using source code to build your applications - been too worried I mess something up! :mrgreen: Anyway I will not bore you with that but rather a few questions I been pondering for some time now:

1. What 'base' to you start from to get a system down to 500mb?
Eeebuntu Base and Standard are based on gnome applications. I am guessing you get the system to a bare minimum without gnome / xfce / or openbox and build from there????

2. Puppy and DSL (Damn Small Linux) have usable/functional systems that use little real estate (under 1GB); is there a way duplicate the process to have a usable/functional eeebuntu LXDE under 1GB?
btw: I realize gnome dependencies are just a piece of the bloat.

3. If there are apps that are built from source, this limits the ability for a 'standard user' to mess things up and 'apt-get' it back - this will pull from the eeebuntu/Ubuntu repository and then pull some unnecessary dependencies/bloat - the question is will there be a little FAQ or How to get the system back to build? Not trying to cause you guys more work that you are already doing for the community!

4. Any ideas what non-gnome utilities a user could expect to see in the final build?
XFburn in lieu of Brasero
MOC in lieu of Banshee (I am biased as I find Banshee to be a cute, but useless mp3 player)
rxvt-unicode for an terminal that supports transparency
non-gnome Display config?
non-gnome Printer config?
non-gnome movie players? Are there any?

Thanks from Sir-Pest-Alot, your fan and user Effran aka [color=#4040BF]Bluester[/color]

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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:03 am 
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Geoff 42 wrote:
bluester wrote:
rxvt-unicode - lightweight terminal emulator with true transparency ability (~/.Xdefaults)

Yes, I use rxvt-unicode-lite. It is much smaller than lxterminal, in terms of memory used, and also handles characters correctly. My simple test of character handling is "man man" and then look at the section on "-7" which has a table of a few selected characters, so that you can check that they are displayed correctly.

But then I go and use up all of that saved memory by using xemacs as my editor :D

Geoff


Geoff,

I seen your name on a few post and noticed you have an interest for a linux DE which has light/low mem/dependency programs as well. I am curious as to what non-gnome programs you use to configure printers, non-gnome application startup configurator - or do you just edit the configuration files with xemacs?
Just seeing what others are doing?

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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:52 am 
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bluester wrote:
I seen your name on a few post and noticed you have an interest for a linux DE which has light/low mem/dependency programs as well. I am curious as to what non-gnome programs you use to configure printers, non-gnome application startup configurator - or do you just edit the configuration files with xemacs?

My background is Unix rather than Linux, so I am not too well up on the details of how some of this stuff is put together. When I first got an EeePC 701 I started with Xubuntu. I later was able to pick u[p an HP Mini-note 2133 cheaply, which had a 120 GB disk, so I had the opportunity to set up several 20 GB partitions to try out several different versions of the OS, with /home on a separate partition. I later spotted Eeebuntu and tried out the base install and have since been following the lxde install. I have the beta 1 on my HP.

I tend to run "top" to have a look at memory usage, with the display sorted by the resident memory usage. To select this you type "Oq<ret>w" where uppercase "O" gets you into the sort page and "q" selects the resident memory size. The return key is used as the "any other key" to return to the main display and "w" writes your settings to the config file.

The other window managers seem to have numerous processes running at over 10 MB resident memory, while the lxde release seems to get away with just 3, Xorg, pcmanfm & lxpanel. In order to get away with this I close the wicd client in the system tray as this is large and is not required for getting your wi-fi connections running. I don't really make much use of the file manager, so maybe I should work out how to stop it firing up at login. I am not sure what the official Linux mechanism is for inhibiting these clients at login.

As for configuration, I have not got printing running under Linux yet. I use the lx configuration programs as far as possible, I think that there are 4 of them. The one which took the longest search is that you use the file manager to play with the screen wallpaper. I have had to do a little editing of config files with xemacs.

Geoff


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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Geoff 42 wrote:
I tend to run "top" to have a look at memory usage, with the display sorted by the resident memory usage. To select this you type "Oq<ret>w" where uppercase "O" gets you into the sort page and "q" selects the resident memory size. The return key is used as the "any other key" to return to the main display and "w" writes your settings to the config file.
Geoff


Good information; thanks.

Geoff 42 wrote:
The other window managers seem to have numerous processes running at over 10 MB resident memory, while the lxde release seems to get away with just 3, Xorg, pcmanfm & lxpanel. In order to get away with this I close the wicd client in the system tray as this is large and is not required for getting your wi-fi connections running. I don't really make much use of the file manager, so maybe I should work out how to stop it firing up at login. I am not sure what the official Linux mechanism is for inhibiting these clients at login.
Geoff


Code:
mv ~/.config/autostart/wicd-tray.desktop  ~/.config/autostart/wicd-tray.desktop_backup && sudo reboot


Geoff 42 wrote:
As for configuration, I have not got printing running under Linux yet. I use the lx configuration programs as far as possible, I think that there are 4 of them. The one which took the longest search is that you use the file manager to play with the screen wallpaper. I have had to do a little editing of config files with xemacs.
Geoff


Maybe I will give xemacs a try; as I said in a previous post, leafpad is more of a general text editor and does not have the functionality gedit provided for editing files. Thanks for the information.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:19 pm 
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we actually build off a modified creation a bit like the server edition of ubuntu;

IE- no desktop enviroment at ALL but the netbook kernels.

We then build the LXDE entirely from source to deb files and tweak the dependancies so no gnome is pulled in.....

we worked through afew configurations firstly putting loads in and taking the bits out until it didnt work .... once we knew the core of what we needed we rebuilt it again.... the only bits of gnome are for the gdm reali so less than 10meg of gnome is actually on the system :)

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 Post subject: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:27 pm 
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What will happen if I install additional progams with "apt-get install xxx", for example VLC. Will that pull in alot of gnome dependencies again?

How can I keep the LXDE installation as cleen as possible, but still I want support for movies, word/excel files, flash, pdf and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on setting up LXDE to be functional
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:47 pm
Posts: 15
eeePC model: 4g surf (701
Aurora version: Other
Guitaraholic wrote:
the only bits of gnome are for the gdm reali so less than 10meg of gnome is actually on the system :)


Have you heard of SLiM? it's supposed to be lighter-weight than gdm? :)


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